I am looking to get AC installed in my home. I have a choice of (all 4 ton, 13 SEER, except where indicated):
1. Goodman (5 Ton)
2. Rheem
3. Yorx
4. Amana (Goodman?)
5. American Standard
Basically, Goodman is the cheapest (by a few hundred $$) - builder's contractor is going to install it install it, plus it is a 5 Ton AC, instead of the 4 Ton (I dont feel comfortable with any of them as they dont seem to reliably know if a 4 or 5 ton would work better).
Is Goodman any good ? We have a Goodman furnace which seems ok (sometimes does not fully kick in even when the Honeywell thermostat temp falls below the temp setting). The builder said that the furnace warranty may be voided if an alternative brand, contractor is used (anyone know anything about this issue?).
Does the AC placement outside the home make any difference ?
If options 2 to 5 are 4 ton units then that is probably the proper size the five Ton is probable oversized. What usually happens is many contractors don't properly size air conditioning equipment. Either they don't know how or they don't want to take the time. More often than not they get away with this method because customers don't know any better and they usually get pretty close.
If a contractor just asks for the size of the home and that is all the information they use to size the air conditioner there is always the risk of sizing problems. Proper load calculations should be done to insure a properly sized system.
A properly sized ac unit will also help control humidity in your home.
A system that is oversized will have short run times and will cycle on and off more times per day that a properly sized system. The more on and off cycles per hour the more wear on the equipment.
Bigger is not better when it comes to air conditioning equipment.
In my opinion it is more important to have a quality installation than try to determine which brand is the best.
A 13 SEER, 5 Ton system will not actually operate at 13 SEER when it is oversized for the space or is not properly installed. You will get a more efficient system at 10 or 11 SEER if it size properly than you will from a 5 Ton 13 SEER system that is oversized.
- Is Goodman any good ? -
Goodman is no better or worse than most.
- Does the AC placement outside the home make any difference ?-
It should be placed away from the outside wall about 24 inches so it is serviceable and as close as possible to the indoor section (if it is a long piping run).
What you will find is that the contractors that do the best work (like properly sizing equipment) may cost a little more. What you get in the end is a system that is properly installed and sized for your home.
Spend a little more now and save on operating costs over the life of the system.
Don
Goodman is the cheapest equipment you can get...none cheaper. they also will sell their equipment to ANYBODY........ whether or not they are qualified to do the work properly. i wouldn't install Goodman at gunpoint.
Goodman are allright, I just won't put one on my own home.
4-5 tons sounds awfully big!
Where are you? How big is the home?
Get a load clac done on the home for best comfort, and long lasting equipment.
I have no problem with Goodman equipment, just most of those who install it. I put a 12 SEER Janitrol (Goodman) A/C in my own home 14 years ago have had ZERO trouble with it. Installation is 99.9% of how well equipment works holds up.
Originally Posted by Jay11J
Goodman are allright, I just won't put one on my own home.
4-5 tons sounds awfully big!
Where are you? How big is the home?
Get a load clac done on the home for best comfort, and long lasting equipment.
Thanks for your responses. We are in Colorado, the home is roughly 2900 SF with a high ceiling living room, entrance. A Goodman furnace was installed by the builder (Richmond). Once we purchased our home, we tracked down the contractor that installed all the furnace units. He said that those that asked for an AC upgrade received a 5-ton unit for our model type of home.
Strangely enough, all the other contractors spec'd a 4-ton unit, with one of them saying that a 5-ton was also an option (Yorx). My preference is Rheem simply because I like their AC enclosures (they seem to have a fully enclosed metallic unit, which is what I had in my previous home, it keeps the dust, dirt, debris out of the unit that sits outside).
Richmond's builder manager said that I should check to ensure that I won't void the furnace warranty by choosing something other than Goodman (which seems very slimey to me!).
At this point, the confusion is trying to zero in on the correct size of the unit. I don't know if a 5-ton Goodman would be appropriate, on the other hand I wonder if all the external contractors are simply trying to maximize their profits by suggesting an undersized unit.
Thanks for your responses thus far!
Simply ask them to do a manual J on your home. The ones that will not do it show them the door nicely. Not knowing the details on your home I would say the 5 ton is oversized and you'll soon have mold problems with it. Like said Goodman would be just fine IF installed and sized properly. My top choices from your list would be in this order.
1.American Standard
2.Rheem
3.York
4.Amana
5.Goodman
By the way. Your warranty will not be void if you use another contractor.
I agree with those who mentioned it's the install that counts. Generally, builders buy on price alone. That goes for the equipment as well as the install. I've seen many of these hack installs and all the shortcuts that were taken (mismatched equipment, no nitrogen purge, no vacuum pump, no filter/dryer, incorrect charge, etc.). Then when the equipment fails everyone blames the manufacturer and not the hack installer.
i agree with Jim and others. installation is the key.
that being said..if a manufacturer (Goodman) will sell it's product to ANYBODY, regardless if they are qualified or not just to move another piece of equipment, then i blame Goodman. i will concede that Goodman has gotten better with it's acqusition of the Amana brand. it could really only get better for Goodman. if someone comes representing Trane or Carrier and carries Goodman as a cheaper alternative then maybe. but if your looking for a cheaper line i would suggest WeatherKing. if they only deal with Goodman well then look out.
everyone has thier favorites and installed incorrectly those won't work well either. mine is Rheem.
if you're really set on Goodman choose your contractor wisely.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/h...gas%20furnaces
Update ....
What is amazing is that I am getting bids right from a 3-ton to a 5-ton unit. The guys talk about manual-J but never really want to do a load calc period (and that is for top-of-the-line factory authorized installing companies).
Honestly, I am not really prepared to trust anyone. I may have to research this on my own and size it accordingly.
One other issue, anyone have any experience with Power driven, model 700 AprilAire humidifiers ? Does the power driven unit buy anything ? It seems that the only reason installers want you to buy that is so they can have an easy install on the humidification unit.
We have an existing Goodman furnace that the builder installed. One of the installer said that AC works best with a variable (Modulated) speed furnace blower motor. Can an existing (new) Goodman furnace be fitted with a blower motor (he said something about also installing a rheostatic choke).
Every new estimate is contributing to my distrust in installers!
My guts are telling me about 3tons would be enough for your home.
Stop getting bids for now, and download this and see what you need. Get the $50 home owner version and let us know what you come up with.
The program may seem hard at first. but once you do one area, rest will be easy.
It's sad to see that many dealer are still not doing the calc.
I like Rheem/Ruud myself, and Trane is my top choice.
The 700 humidifer is fine, just has a built in fan to add humidity.
Anony
1. Goodman (5 Ton)
2. Rheem
3. Yorx
4. Amana (Goodman?)
5. American Standard
My Choices
1.Amer Std
2.Rheem
3.York
4.Goodman/Amana(same)
Correct size is critical for good dehumidification. Colorado has hot, humid summers? By the way, what is the size of your furnace blower? A 5 ton AC condenser will not work with a 4 ton rated furnace blower. Also you should get a matching evap coil regardless of brand selected. Like Tinner says, I would not have a Goodman or an Amana. Anecdotal evidence indicates Goodman installers match the equipment-low end. As far as placement goes, I like an AC outdoor unit to be as close to furnace as possible without a lot of bends in the refrigerant lineset. And insist upon a heat/cool load calculation.
My Opinion
Good LucK!
Thanks so much for all the tips and help. I got an estimate for a 5-ton Rheem today (from a certified Flagship Rheem Team installer). They told me that they use 1-ton per 600 square feet of home area!!
The interesting thing is that I moved from a 2300 sf home to a 2900 sf home. The 2300 home had a new 4-ton unit (the upper storey would stay relatively warmer).
Originally Posted by Jay11J
My guts are telling me about 3tons would be enough for your home.
Stop getting bids for now, and download this and see what you need. Get the $50 home owner version and let us know what you come up with.
The program may seem hard at first. but once you do one area, rest will be easy.
It's sad to see that many dealer are still not doing the calc.
I like Rheem/Ruud myself, and Trane is my top choice.
The 700 humidifer is fine, just has a built in fan to add humidity.
Did you download the load Calc???
I do NOT like the sq fot per ton ideal.; Soo many homes varies, what windows points where.. ect. ect.. ect.. there's toooo may variables.
anonymouse
Jay is absolutely correct. Don't guess-get the calcuation made. 600 sq ft/ton is old school and may or may not work. Why take the chance? You may be walking into a mistake that is avoidable. It is amazing that posters can come onto this forum and ask for help but can't step up to take the advice.
Good LucK.
You may need it!
Originally Posted by TigerDunes
anonymouse
It is amazing that posters can come onto this forum and ask for help but can't step up to take the advice.
Good LucK.
You may need it!
It takes time to do this, cant happen overnight. Will calculate and report back at some point! Thanks for the help.
A lot of misguided info here -- PLEASE note - that the goodman contractor was probably correct about the size for two reasons- first - that he has experience with similar buildings - and for this purpose we could call them identical buildings. the only difference would be exposure - and probably in itself wont change size..
Manual D makes recommendations for equipment selection - this is as opposed to manual J the load - once you load- you must know select equipment - and this can be very subjective- perhaps you like 68 not 74 -- this will change size much more than manual j btu load will... second is the output as specified by the equipment manufacture. for AC, the selection manual states that - selection to be made from Sensible load not the total load (sensible plus latent) for example manual J load calculated at 36000 btu -- MOST would think this is 3 tons... sure ,12000 btu = 1 ton right.. so its 3 ton-- WRONG? 36000 may be the sensible load under manual J and when u ad the latent you get 42000. then according to the selection guide - it says to use the sensible directed by the manufacturer .. and for refference a 3.5 ton goodman 14 seer = 40000 total but just 30000 sensible.. and this example we had 36000 sensible -- so you can see here - that a 3.5 ton is not big enough for 36000 btu sensible - you will need atleast 4 ton in this example.. so in essense goodman 3.5 ton is more like 2.5 ton sensible ... by btu ratings.... so - you better check your manufacture output rating. and stop dividing your btus by 12000. this is much more common now in high efficiency units than older 9 seer or less.... the rating is not what you may think - in general replacing an older less eff unit you will almost always have to move up atleast .5 ton - from previous.. unless u were oversized previously
Old thread but great info there Nordicwolf. Thanks for the input.
Don't buy a Goodman! Wish I would have read all the bad reviews on it before replacing my old, but trusty Trane. Spend the extra dollars now, because you will regret it later. Mine is getting worked on after only 3 years. What a lemon. It's costing me almost as much to repair as what I paid to replace it! So buyer beware....
Sorry, I did not read many of the posts.
In my experience, it is nearly always bad install practices that cause major failures in A/C systems.
Goodman equipment was okay 3 years ago.
There is little difference between the major components in A/C condensers.
Goodman is good. I have to agree with HVAC retired, there is little difference. You can go out and buy a different brand, but most systems now use Copeland scroll compressors which are a quality unit.
As many of us have stated it's the install that's more important than the brand. In my service area I see other very well known brands that are poorly installed. The result is an unreliable system with frequent repairs.
If you purchase on price alone, you may get a bad install. Find a good technician first and don't worry so much about brand.
Tags: goodman, brand, good, your home, Goodman furnace, said that, 36000 sensible, agree with, Amana Goodman, amazing that
